Drone Or Phone?
It is not often you hear the words “iPhone Killer” thrown around the place and taken in any way seriously, but Android has been getting hopes and expectations a-pumping. Jono Bacon and Stuart ‘Aq’ Langridge crack open the story and explore the opportunities and risks that Google face in how the Open Source community see this exciting new mobile system.
68 Comments to “Drone Or Phone?”
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I think you guys like the iPhone more than I do! I like the spooky power of my G1 to do two things at once thanks!
I guess it depends on whether your priorities are functionality or glassy effects, but for me Android is already there (as soon as I can upgrade my handset to have some battery life of course).
It is a shame about the google proprietary apps, but another problem is the growing dominance of shareware and payware on the app market. I think it would be nice to have an alternative “market” app from the OS community that lets you browse open source apps without all the limitware dross cluttering things up.
As I understand it, Google don’t allow other Market browsers on the phones. There is, of course, nothing stopping someone writing one anyway and requiring “install non-Market applications” be ticked to install it, but such an app would be in violation of the Market terms and conditions.
Of course, you could write your own market browser which browses your own market. That’s certainly doable, but it’s quite a lot of work.
I think Google has at least done the basics of building a successful ecosystem right – ie an open source core phone OS. Contrast this to apple with their closed source, closed hardware model and it’s back to the PC/Mac war of the 80’s and look at Apple’s share now. So long as Google don’t do anything stupid, I think in 10 years time it will be Apple 5% Android 90% Others 5%. Maybe a bit bold. My biggest moan re Android – lack of python support
To be fair, the python thing is really a resource issue rather than ‘Java is the one true way’. Dynamic languages require a lot more processing full stop, and any non-Java languages on Android will likely require some sort of libraries which take up space. I don’t have the link but I know a few people have got Scala working on Android (but that’s statically typed).
Frankly I think you could put any JavaVM language on Android (with effort) in the same way that you can write Google App Engine apps in lots of JavaVM languages.
I think performance is where the real hit would be and you’d really notice it on a phone. I’ve noticed that my 2004 laptop is struggling with the latest ubuntu releases these days and I wonder sometimes whether the prevalence of python in the desktop is the issue. I’ll make it quite clear here that I haven’t looked and really have no idea, so I’m certainly not qualified to point fingers. (Between you and me, I think it’s Flash more than anything.)
Any use of heavy interpreted languages on mobile systems with strictly constrained power resources is utterly misguided, IMO. I just ported rtmpdump to my G1, after rewriting it in plain C from its original C++, and that cut down the memory footprint by 1/3 and cut down the CPU use by 1/2. People already think C++ is an efficient language; most of them Don’t Know Jack about software efficiency. Running apps inside dedicated VMs on a phone is pure lunacy, it’s the kind of idiocy you’d only expect from people who don’t understand Unix.
The G1 hardware has probably more CPU power than my old Win98 mobile Pentium laptop, and a pretty decent GPU as well, but it runs incredibly sluggishly when you try to move from one Android app to another. There’s no reason for it to perform this poorly, and there’s no excuse for it. Me, I no longer use any of the Android apps besides ConnectBot. Everything else I do in a screen session on one of my other servers – finch for IM, mutt for email, etc. etc. – saves memory, saves CPU, saves battery life. The only Android app I use regularly now is Solitaire.
Ultimately I’d like to port the old Bellcore MGR to the G1 and eliminate the rest of the cruft. I don’t need eye-candy on a phone ferchrissake, and the rest of the stuff is just too expensive resource-wise. We can do better than this, and we should.
Actually, Android has no such terms. There are currently at least 3 alternative markets thriving on the platform now (AndAppStore, SlideME, Archos…). You are right though that Google doesn’t let you list competing market apps in their own market app, but that should be hardly surprising. I’d rather they didn’t play those games though, personally.
Why do you hate freedom? The thing about Android is, it’s surprising how little of what goes in to a device is actually open source. Much of the stuff that is released is stuff that would have to have been released anyway, because it isn’t Google IP. Android is basically a bunch of random Linux stuff thrown together in a ramshackle pile.
Compare and contrast Nokia, who really have embraced open source wholeheartedly. On both their smartphone platforms, everything they can open source is being open sourced. In the case of Symbian OS, there is no coercion involved. They didn’t have to open source the platform, but they did anyway.
Being open source is now very obviously the only way to win in the smartphone space. The iPhone and Palm WebOS are fairly well doomed to be also rans. I just wonder if Android really is open enough.
“Being open source is now very obviously the only way to win in the smartphone space. The iPhone and Palm WebOS are fairly well doomed to be also rans.”
While I appreciate the sentiment, what leads you to that conclusion? If you’re suggesting that none of the iPhone, WebOS, and Android are properly open source, then that just leaves Nokia, yes? What would you say to back up the claim that Nokia are winning so hugely that they’ve proved that open source is “obviously the way to win”?
Look at the number of design wins Android and Symbian have achieved in the same period of time that Apple have released 3 phones. Look at the number of design wins Android and Symbian have achieved in the time it has taken Palm to release one phone.
This is a totally one sided war. Closed platforms simply can’t keep up. When J. Random Phone-Buyer walks in to the Vodafone store when his contract is up and sees dozen smartphones from half a dozen different manufacturers that are all basically the same, more than likely he’s going to walk out with an Android phone or a Symbian phone. Apple have now lost their differentiator, the quality of their software, so what have they got left to compete with? Not their battery life or call quality, that’s for damn sure.
It comes down to the fact that anyone can pick up up Android or Symbian and build a device with it. For every iPhone or Palm Pre, there’ll be a dozen Motorola Miltestones or Samsung Omnia HDs. Apple can’t provide what operators want, and they demand too much. They’re doomed, the same way they’re doomed to have a minuscule share of the desktop PC market.
My only question is whether Android is really open enough in the sense that I wonder if phone manufacturers are going to revolt against Google controlling the core application set. Especially now they’re actually going to become direct competitors in the device retail market.
“Look at the number of design wins Android and Symbian have achieved in the same period of time that Apple have released 3 phones.”
Really? I mean, I like my HTC Hero, and the Droid is nice. Calling the Hero a “design win” is pushing it, though; the Nexus isn’t out; the G1 and G2 are design fails. Is there even a nice Symbian phone? The Symbian UI is horrible, and the Android UI, while nice enough, doesn’t bring any marvellous design innovations as far as I can see, much as I enjoy using it.
Heh, sorry. I really should learn to not use industry terms in these contexts. Suffice it to say, “win” here is not used as the antonym of “fail”.
Chris, I’m intrigued now; how is it defined?
Design win: commonly used marketing term meaning that your (possibly still proposed) component has “won” the privilege of being included in a customers application (“application” in this could mean: “car”, “space shuttle” or “mobile phone”) — applis to both hardware and software.
That’ll teach me to reply using the tiny keyboard on my phone. Hopefully a little more coherently this time:
Design win: a commonly used marketing term meaning that your (possibly still proposed) component has “won” the privilege of being included in a customers application (“application” in this context could mean: “car”, “space shuttle” or “mobile phone”) — applies to both hardware and software (i.e. I work for a semi-conductor manufacturer and we talk about Design Wins for our chips).
I don’t know what’s it’s like in the UK but I suspect in Australia when Joe Blow walks into a phone shop to get a new phone, all they want is the iPhone because it’s got so much mindshare – certainly in Australia. Blackberry users are just wanting MS Office integration and don’t count.
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Android has yet to make much of an impact here. The G1 is out and I think that’s it. I’m not sure I’ve even seen a Hero here, let alone a Droid. But we’re just a backwater in many respects, unfortunately.
The problem with Symbian is that it presents a truly terrible user experience. The cynic in me wonders if the only reason Nokia opened it up was because they saw that as being the only way they’d stand a chance of keeping some market share (or not losing as much).
I would have thought the existence of Maemo would have been a satisfactory answer to that one. No, Nokia really have caught the open source bug. They know a winning strategy when they see one.
Be fair, Symbian is running on a lot of legacy phones that simply do not have the power to run any of these new smartphone OS’s
I think you’ve confused Nokia Series 40 and Symbian/Series 60.
(The former is a powerful single tasking operating system with very low resource requirements often considered to be a legacy system, the latter is widely adopted Smartphone OS with a somewhat date UI on top).
I’ve got a G1.
The battery life is abysmal (off-charge at 0700 and dead by 1500 on a busy day with wireless and bluetooth off). The Cyanogen mod has improved this so it at least lasts the day now.
OK, so I know that this isn’t an Android problem per se, but it does show just how bad the stock Android distribution is (and it also shows just how bad HTC can be too).
The other problem I have is random crashes and reboots and, on occasion, continual ringing which means the battery’s got to be taken out. I suspect this is a Cyanogen thing though.
Bluetooth support is terrible – earpieces which worked perfectly well on Windows Mobile and Symbian phones suddenly stop responding, refuse to pair and don’t allow the volume to be changed.
I keep missing calls because the damn ringer is just too quiet and the vibration is more of a gentle wobble. Again, though, this is a handset problem, I know.
Every now and again it decides to zip to the bottom/top of a screen when I’m scrolling. This is very annoying.
But after all that, I love it. Apart from the Nokia 6210i, it’s the best phone I’ve owned.
About to upgrade to a Motarola Milestone…
Or ‘Motorola’, even.
I agree that open source people have iPhone envy.
My view is that if you want to compete with the iPhone, the number 1 can’t-do-without-it feature is smooth, responsive scrolling. Without that, it’s just going to feel clunky compared to your mate’s iPhone 3GS. Thing is, this is not a hard problem to solve. How difficult can it be to copy pixels from one place to another in a video buffer? And yet, the G1 is a massive fail at this – even overclocked.
I’d certainly like to hear your comments on the Nokia N900 – assuming you can get hold of one
Gerv (who has an Android Dev Phone, i.e. an unlocked G1)
Heya Gerv,
I have a G1 and I don’t get dodgy scrolling. How is yours sub-optimal in this regard?
And here’s another thought. Please can we have a nice Ajax-y comment form, so that if I type my thoughts about what you are saying while listening to the podcast, and absent-mindedly hit “submit”, Aq doesn’t get cut off in mid-sentence like a nervous MP being interviewed by John Humphries.
Gerv
I would happily have an Ajax comment poster if there was
a) a Wordpress plugin to do it b) which has been updated more recently than 18 months ago c) and which has a demo page which is not now owned by domain squatters
So far I have not found anything of the sort; if I have to write it from scratch, it’ll take quite a bit longer. Suggestions welcomed.
How about a separate page for suggestions for future Shots, with voting buttons so the “Community” can drive the agenda
I like that idea.
Just been creating Android developer certs, for Android you only need a self signed cert that has an expiry after 2033 and shows clear attribution to the developer. Compare that with Symbian where you need either an operator, oem, or symbian signature to make your app work.
That has got to drive a lot of innovation into the marketplace for apps.
In the podcast you were also talking about connecting phones to Linux computers. That sort of connectivity just isn’t happening with current offerings. Without an open development environment that where the community can create the linkage it is never going to happen.
Agreed. Nothing is more likely to make Symbian app development annoying than the “Symbian Signed” programme.
It’s swings and roundabouts, to some extent. In the show you were bitching about the only programming environment being Java, well that’s how Android has solved the security problem. If they don’t expose a component to the Dalvik VM, installable apps can’t use it.
Symbian have solved the problem with a comprehensive native security model, which means you can have the things you want like being able to hack apps in Python if you so desire (or .NET, or C, or C++ with or without QT or Glib.) but the downside is you have to go through the signing program if you want to distribute.
Of course, the iPhone has the worst of both worlds. Much worse auditing, and absolutely no choice in development tools by fiat.
What do you think we need to foster this open development environment in Linux?
We could do with packaging the Android SDK (complete with the emulator) and getting it in Debian/Ubuntu. I’m interested in achieving this, but even after all the packaging 101’s I still have no idea how to get my final .deb out of a ~PPA and into the official repositories.
Many people still don’t trust PPA’s and prefer to tackle installing from upstream themselves, which often leads to frustration and abandoning their attempts.
I had an interesting conversation with an Android hacker who worked on various improvements to the browser included with CyanogenMod just after the “cease and desist” order was issued. His take on it wasn’t that Google didn’t want people distributing their closed source stuff (they hadn’t had a problem with it up until then), but that Cyanogen had included their Market application before it was officially released (along with much planned fanfare from the device manufacturers and networks). This pissed Google off (perhaps rightly so) and they threw their toys out of the pram.
This shows 2 things: Firstly, If you distribute closed source components on an open source system, you’re on dodgy ground and you’re probably going to get burned. Secondly, Google like the open source distribution model while it’s helping their business plan, but as soon as it’s not, they’re not quite so friendly.
Given the news reports and the conversation had, I think that Cyanogen probably should have been a bit more savvy to the fact that Google wouldn’t like what he was doing, but I also think that Google should have made clear in the first place what they were and weren’t happy for people to redistribute (the licensing of the applications doesn’t seem to reflect the true stance as they initially ‘turned a blind eye’ to redistribution of proprietary software).
I love my G2 – the applications I have installed are certainly as good as the ones on the iPhone that I’ve seen. Google goggles needs a bit of work though, and Listen, Google’s own podcast catcher is also a bit crap for now
Something that is not clear to me:
Other than ease of app. development on Free/Open systems, I have no understanding how Android (based on a Free/Open kernel with a closed operating system on top) is considered more open than the iPhone (based on a Free/Open kernel with a closed operating system on top).
(Please enlighten me)
Well, there is somewhat more of Android open sourced than just the kernel. The computing environment, in the form of Dalvik VM is also, plus the shell and some other bits and bobs. Contrast the iPhone which you can’t even say the kernel is open sourced. Even the desktop Mac OS X kernel isn’t open any more. The iPhone is a totally closed system.
I have the HTC Hero and I like it quite well. I’ve also got access to the N900 and it’s not bad, it’s just not as polished as Android at the moment. Development for Android is dead easy and I wouldn’t quite agree with you, that more languages must be an option. If you insist in comparing it to the iPhone, than it should also be obvious that in order to beat it, one must to one thing and do it exceptionally well
. Android SDK comes as one neat package, you can develop almost immediately and test on the emulator with absolutely no hassle. The other open source platform I’d mention is Maemo5 and, while it was a mess when I tested, I hear they released proper tools and should be very simple to develop in Python. I’m a Qt guy if anything and I still have to wait for proper Maemo builds and/or Maemo6.
I wouldn’t go as far as comparing Android and the iPhone. They don’t even play in the same league. Android is competition to Windows RB (Really bad, or whatever they call it these days), because neither of them controls the hardware. Maemo is more of a competition to the iPhone, since obviously one only runs on the N900 and the other on the, well, the iPhone
.
You guys kept asking for a phone where you can write in many languages and has an open source base. Android of course is not the answer, you have to target the Dalvik vm which means just Java.
Maemo however allows you to write in C, C++, Qtified C++, Python, Perl, Ruby, Erlang and whatever else you would write in on a Linux desktop.
The Maemo user experience on the N900 is actually very compelling, such that my wife uses it and prefers it to having an iPhone (she does however like the thousands of games available on the iPhone).
It is not locked, you can install straight from the application manager on the phone a package that gives you root. Creating applications for the N900 is really easy in Python/PyGTK (staple diets for both of you guys) and uploading them to the repository is easier than getting packages into a Ubuntu repository.
I think we really glossing over a huge fact. The point that hardly any legitimate access to the linux below and you only get access to programming the device via the sdk. How is this different from the iphone and why are we celebrating this ? We should be taking about Maemo since this is basiclly a linux device with a phone.
I’m celebrating that I like my phone. I don’t want to hack the kernel on it.
except you’re complaining you can’t write any apps on it because you’re not a boring java dev.
to hack on maemo doesn’t require you to even know what the kernel does, just write a PyGTK app.
we have flumotion running on it, thomas has couchdb and his todo app that uses couchdb running on it.
personally i’d rather have a phone i can actually write useful apps on rather than being a google fanboy and buying an android phone (i have a g1 also) and thinking “oh nice, it’s mostly free, just wish i could be bothered to learn java again to actually write something decent on it”.
Also the only thing you’d recognise as a Linux system on Android is the kernel. Everything else is not, and hence you hardly see any linux apps being ported to it.
The real reason I don’t want an N900 is, of course, that it has a hardware keyboard, which I don’t like. However, I completely agree that being able to write apps is good, and that experience would be much better on Maemo. I am counterbalancing that with how many other people there are writing apps, though; for broadly anything I’ve wanted an app for on my phone, there’s been an Android app to do it. That’s not (yet, hopefully) the case with Maemo, as far as I can tell; I like hacking, but I already have a million projects to do
Horses for courses, I suppose. Personally, I couldn’t stand a phone that didn’t have a hardware keyboard.
How about couchdb running on your phone?
I know that got you salivating when Thomas told you he had it running and actually doing useful stuff and I believe he is not far from having it sync with ubuntu one.
Also since I got an E71 last year, I don’t think I could survive without a hardware keyboard.
The physical keyboard is one of the reasons I like the G1 (and therefore have no interest in the G2/Hero). I also think the OMAP3530 is a great little chip and am looking forward to getting hold of an N900.
Of course, I’ve rooted my G1. I have OpenLDAP 2.4.19 running on it. My local slapd syncs to my home server so I have all my addressbook contacts and such. I dunno what you’re talking about, re: no Linux apps ported to it. Porting is pretty much a no-brainer – configure / make / make install / adb push… Really it’s such a non-event that there’s nothing to talk about, which seems to me to be the reason you don’t see more being talked about.
You can use libSDL and port some of your graphics apps over already. I think all that’s missing is open access to the Radio Interface Library, which prevents me from jettisoning all the Android crap and just running everything natively from a regular /etc/init.d…
Try and put those apps available for normal users to use. You can’t because you can only write properly distributable apps in Java.
I’m involved with the AnySoftKeyboard open source project.. my main gripe is that Google’s SDK for ‘Linux’ is 32 bit and doesn’t come as a .deb. I haven’t gotten it working /quite/ right yet, so even though I’m learning java and have the source code.. I’m not able to really hack on it.
Getting a 64bit Android SDK and recent version of Eclipse and Subclipse into the Ubuntu Software Center would really help out Free Software on the Android operating system.
Nonsense. I’m glad the SDK is 32 bit, because I just recently tar’d up my entire dev image from my x64 laptop to another machine and I didn’t have to recompile anything to get back to work.
There’s absolutely nothing to be gained in functionality by providing 64 bit binaries here, only more management headaches.
I see an underlying theme that’s starting to emerge here. There’s this trend with fancy, newfangled technology to initially be closed, proprietary (or in some cases I suppose, academic)… but to eventually be supplanted by more open standards and tech. We’ve seen this happen with all manner of core Internet technology, it’s more or less happened with email by now, and Jono & Aq made mention of this phenomenon in the Twitter shot.
My hope is that this will be also be the case with “smart” phones. Android is definitely out of the starting block well behind Apple, but I don’t think anyone can deny that it’s catching up. There’s still the problem of getting app developers on-board though. It doesn’t matter how awesome the core platform is; the masses-at-large won’t think about it and don’t care. It’s all about who has the most apps.
One of the huge strengths of Linux on the desktop is having a (pretty much) one-stop-shop for installing software. Having to use multiple app managers is dumb, and rather defeats the purpose of such centralized app management, right?
Does Android’s current marketplace app support additional repository sources in the manner of apt/yum? Until it does, it seems to me that Android is trying to go toe-to-toe with Apple (and those other guys) on their terms, rather than taking advantage of one of the things that makes its desktop Linux brethren so flexible and otherwise awesome.
You think it’s a good idea to let people edit their own apt.sources list on a mobile phone? I can still sometimes manage library hell, especially when dist-upgrading. Seems like allowing any old third party sources in wouldn’t be great.
Having an officially blessed set of repos is a great thing. I guess static compiling would help out, too.
I won’t discredit Nokia just yet. They sell the most handsets and they back the most popular mobile OS at the moment. While Android is pretty cool, and lot of the smartphone manufacturers will use it, I think the Maemo products/project will be far more interesting. The whole concept is about convergence of all possible mobile technologies into a single handset. Think of the possibility of one day having a single device that your entire computing experience centers around. Imagine one minute the device is a hub that wirelessly connects say a monitor, keyboard and storage together. Then the next moment I pick up said device, put in my pocket and I take my computing experience with me. That I think is way cooler than just building a better smartphone. Maybe Nokia is looking forward to where its Maemo platform makes the concept of separate a smartphone, a netbook, a laptop and/or a desktop for separate work, obsolete?
I’d look towards Qt to be the new hotness from the Nokia front. It’s going to be across all their devices, and they’ve more or less committed now to phasing out series 40, so they’re headed for a smartphones all the way down strategy. I think they’re the one to watch in the smartphone market.
The question is will Android type phones ever become as cheap as normal phones? I would love to get an Android phone but its the price tag that puts me off.
I could buy a whole frickin PS3, Xbox 360, Wii or Netbook for that kind of money, which makes me wonder is it really worth it?
I don’t understand that. Mine was free; T-Mobile didn’t charge me for it at all.
Lots of countries operators ain’t so loving. The yanks get ripped off something royal on contracts, if they want a phone free they often have sign their lives away for 3 years (!) to get it. I bitch at Voda for making me sign for 18 months. Used to be a year back in the day.
I will soon be picking up a T-Mobile Pulse PAYG handset for £137 from their online store. I consider that to be a very low barrier entry.
Add one more in favor of Maemo/N900. I think it’s a great antidote for the closed iPhone, and the more I use mine, the more I find to like about it. Some of my biggest gripes (http://freelock.com/blog/john-locke/3/nokia-n900-first-impressions ) are already a thing of the past–I’ve found a better podcast player (Panucci), a couple modes in the browser to handle drop-downs and drag-and-drop, and battery life has been mostly fine.
But I’m far more likely to actually develop applications/tweak/port things in Python than to bother with a tightly-controlled Java environment or learning Objective C.
And what’s worse about the others – Android, Palm, iPhone, is the sense that it’s not really your phone, it’s still controlled by the platform. With Maemo, it’s much more mine–not sending all kinds of stuff back to the mother ship, far less restrictive on what can be installed.
Why so dismissive of Maemo?
I have got to agree with the n900/maemo users on here. Just picked mine up a few days ago and I am loving it so far. Not gonna lie, it is fairly buggy right now (random reboots etc.) but the fact that it is based on debian makes a huge difference to me. I can install .deb s on the thing for fucks sakes, who could not love that?
You can be almost completely involved in the process, fixing bugs, etc. Users are the people who decide which programs go through in the repositories (which is great and will be better once there are more users).
For those looking for an n900 without a keyboard, it is already confirmed to be coming out next year without a keyboard and with a capacitive (aka multi-touch) screen.
I think you over-estimate the importance of Linux desktop interoperability to phone vendors. They still really really only care about the platform in terms of the features it can provide them and what it will cost them.
I would love to be able to sync my mobile phone with my desktop, but I think the only way that is likely to happen any time soon is to store everything on Google apps and use that platform on both my phone and the desktop.
Maybe this is a good place to ask.
I have an android phone (Samsung galaxy I5700). I’m using google listen as my podcatcher but I can’t make it subscribe to your rss feed. I keeps saying “Feed could not be fetched” I have tried both http://feeds.feedburner.com/ShotOfJaq http://feeds.feedburner.com/ShotOfJaqOgg No luck. Any tips?
On the subject of iPhone envy. I certainly don’t have it. My girlfriend has had an iPhone for over a year now she has nothing but trouble with it. She’s actually on her fourth physical iPhone, One got lost, one smashed, one the speaker stopped working. She has had to jump through all kinds of hoops to get these problems resolved and in so doing repeatedly lost all her iTunes music, photos and apps.
One of the phones went wrong in a most amusing way. It just incessantly played music at full volume. There was no way to stop it and because Steve Jobs knows better than you, we couldn’t even take the battery out. We buried it in a washing basket and put that under the stairs until the battery ran out.
The phone she has now keeps ‘white screening’ and no app that wasn’t pre-installed will run on it.
Now you might be thinking that my girlfriend is hard on phones. Maybe she is, but she had a Motorola Krazor before that and never had any problems.
With the contract and all, I calculate that the iPhone is costing well over €2,000. Meanwhile my android phone cost €300 (plus about €5 per month for pay as you go credit) and I have already had masses of fun with it. I have also started learning Android development safe in the knowledge that I can publish my program on my website if it is not deemed suitable for the android marketplace.
To say I’m happy with it is an understatement
Do you think I should buy apple shares now, or is it too late?
Go ahead.
http://www.3g.co.uk/PR/March2010/Google-Nexus-One-Outsells-iPhone-3G.html http://www.engadget.com/2010/03/29/stats-iphone-os-is-still-king-of-the-mobile-web-space-but-andr/ So Android is the iPhone killer.
So a new phone coming out with Symbian on it counts as a “design win” for Symbian?
Yup.
Doesn’t make any difference whether the phone is brilliant or a fetid pile of 3 week old deep fried dingos kidneys with a still wriggling lamphrey garnish (to abuse a Douglas Adams quote).
The WIN is from being designed in to the application (n this case a mobile phone).
Ah, now, you see, that’s interesting. Because, obviously, what I want is to have a proper native Ubuntu One environment on my phone, and having Couch there thanks to Thomas’s work would be excellent. But…I’m aware that most people won’t have anything that fantastically native, and saying “ahaha, it works for me, suckers” is not really the done thing when you’re Bloke In Charge Of Making It Happen For Everyone
We shall agree to differ on the keyboard thing!
If I could score a free N900 that was thinner and didn’t have the keyboard that’d be great, mind.
I guess you’ll have to wait a while for a thinner keyboard-less phone that can run couchdb and ubuntu one natively.
Except mobile phones these days are not mobile phones. They are meant to do so much more. In fact voice calling is probably < 10% of what I use my phone for.