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	<title>Comments on: Piracy In The Party</title>
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	<link>http://shotofjaq.org/2010/02/piracy-in-the-party/</link>
	<description>Ten minutes of short, sharp, informed, and funny comment about the open source world</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Tue, 14 Sep 2010 21:58:10 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: sil</title>
		<link>http://shotofjaq.org/2010/02/piracy-in-the-party/comment-page-1/#comment-2124</link>
		<dc:creator>sil</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 22 Feb 2010 20:49:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://shotofjaq.org/?p=347#comment-2124</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;That&#039;s a good point; multi-party democracy systems often can make a minority party worth the effort, whereas FPTP systems like the UK and US, which are strongly anti-coalition, don&#039;t. This may also explain the various Pirate Parties showing well in the European Parliament, which is also party-list.&lt;/p&gt;
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That&#8217;s a good point; multi-party democracy systems often can make a minority party worth the effort, whereas FPTP systems like the UK and US, which are strongly anti-coalition, don&#8217;t. This may also explain the various Pirate Parties showing well in the European Parliament, which is also party-list.</p>]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Sense Hofstede</title>
		<link>http://shotofjaq.org/2010/02/piracy-in-the-party/comment-page-1/#comment-2123</link>
		<dc:creator>Sense Hofstede</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 22 Feb 2010 20:47:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://shotofjaq.org/?p=347#comment-2123</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Well, we&#039;ve got a Party for the Animals in the Netherlands, and it has got a few seats in parliament and even in the European Parliament.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;They actually contribute more to the debate than just demanding an answer from the Ministry of Defence -- not War, nor Peace -- when news leaked that the Pentagon is working on manipulating beetles, which really happened. When parliament tried to discover how the whole Iraq-war-support-issue was born they were one of the parties asking actual useful questions to the minsters.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;However, this does depend on the issue the one-issue party is focused on. The Party for the Animals was founded by and attracts a specific kind of people that has always been interested in politics and knows how it works and who now found a reason to try to be elected. However, the other one-issue party, that of Geert Wilders, whose main issue is Islam, does not contribute much useful to the debate.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;In a multi-party systems like Sweden (and the Netherlands) a one-issue party can be valuable. However, if you have constituencies like Britain and the USA it will more often turn out to be unsuccessful because:
A. People are more likely to vote on someone who has a reasonable chance to win and with whom they agree enough. This is bad news for smaller parties, because their electorate is more spread.
B. Governments in political systems based on the idea of proportional representation often consist of multiple parties. This is an opportunity for one-issue parties to occupy a department that&#039;s related to their issue without having to other things.&lt;/p&gt;
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well, we&#8217;ve got a Party for the Animals in the Netherlands, and it has got a few seats in parliament and even in the European Parliament.</p>

<p>They actually contribute more to the debate than just demanding an answer from the Ministry of Defence &#8212; not War, nor Peace &#8212; when news leaked that the Pentagon is working on manipulating beetles, which really happened. When parliament tried to discover how the whole Iraq-war-support-issue was born they were one of the parties asking actual useful questions to the minsters.</p>

<p>However, this does depend on the issue the one-issue party is focused on. The Party for the Animals was founded by and attracts a specific kind of people that has always been interested in politics and knows how it works and who now found a reason to try to be elected. However, the other one-issue party, that of Geert Wilders, whose main issue is Islam, does not contribute much useful to the debate.</p>

<p>In a multi-party systems like Sweden (and the Netherlands) a one-issue party can be valuable. However, if you have constituencies like Britain and the USA it will more often turn out to be unsuccessful because:
A. People are more likely to vote on someone who has a reasonable chance to win and with whom they agree enough. This is bad news for smaller parties, because their electorate is more spread.
B. Governments in political systems based on the idea of proportional representation often consist of multiple parties. This is an opportunity for one-issue parties to occupy a department that&#8217;s related to their issue without having to other things.</p>]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Roland</title>
		<link>http://shotofjaq.org/2010/02/piracy-in-the-party/comment-page-1/#comment-2082</link>
		<dc:creator>Roland</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 21 Feb 2010 01:12:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://shotofjaq.org/?p=347#comment-2082</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;You &quot;don&#039;t know&quot; whether Pirate Parties are a good or bad thing? Then why did you choose the topic for the show? The joy of sex isn&#039;t experienced limp. Choose a topic on which you have some knowledge, please, not one&#039;s about which you &quot;don&#039;t know.&quot;&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Get it on!&lt;/p&gt;
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You &#8220;don&#8217;t know&#8221; whether Pirate Parties are a good or bad thing? Then why did you choose the topic for the show? The joy of sex isn&#8217;t experienced limp. Choose a topic on which you have some knowledge, please, not one&#8217;s about which you &#8220;don&#8217;t know.&#8221;</p>

<p>Get it on!</p>]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: toyg</title>
		<link>http://shotofjaq.org/2010/02/piracy-in-the-party/comment-page-1/#comment-1959</link>
		<dc:creator>toyg</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 Feb 2010 10:04:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://shotofjaq.org/?p=347#comment-1959</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;I&#039;m happy to see most people in the comments exposing a point of view similar to mine, which is that small political parties can make a difference in various ways.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Lobby groups are fine for limited-scale efforts, but in the long run they tend to lose, because they can only &lt;em&gt;react&lt;/em&gt; to agendas set from the mainstream (i.e. big companies). See the effort on software patents: yes, it was defeated, but the industry tabled the idea and they will table it over and over again as long as they &quot;own&quot; politicians through donations. The only way to balance that is to have your own politicians who can table their own agenda and be proactive, reframing debate in parliaments and in the media. And you need a political party for that, someone who can say &quot;electoral results demonstrate that I directly represent X millions of people&quot;.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Looking at the historical perspective, btw, the opportunity is even more appealing. Post-1989, the political debate in Europe was thrown into chaos by the end of long-standing &quot;socialism vs capitalism&quot; fights, on which most European political systems were built after WW2. 20 years later, all main parties are still desperately trying to reinvent themselves, which is why they adopted the green movement so wholeheartedly. As green issues are solved (or discredited), they will scramble again for something new, and that new might as well be &quot;digital rights&quot; if someone can prove that it&#039;s a vote-winner.&lt;/p&gt;
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m happy to see most people in the comments exposing a point of view similar to mine, which is that small political parties can make a difference in various ways.</p>

<p>Lobby groups are fine for limited-scale efforts, but in the long run they tend to lose, because they can only <em>react</em> to agendas set from the mainstream (i.e. big companies). See the effort on software patents: yes, it was defeated, but the industry tabled the idea and they will table it over and over again as long as they &#8220;own&#8221; politicians through donations. The only way to balance that is to have your own politicians who can table their own agenda and be proactive, reframing debate in parliaments and in the media. And you need a political party for that, someone who can say &#8220;electoral results demonstrate that I directly represent X millions of people&#8221;.</p>

<p>Looking at the historical perspective, btw, the opportunity is even more appealing. Post-1989, the political debate in Europe was thrown into chaos by the end of long-standing &#8220;socialism vs capitalism&#8221; fights, on which most European political systems were built after WW2. 20 years later, all main parties are still desperately trying to reinvent themselves, which is why they adopted the green movement so wholeheartedly. As green issues are solved (or discredited), they will scramble again for something new, and that new might as well be &#8220;digital rights&#8221; if someone can prove that it&#8217;s a vote-winner.</p>]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Dorian</title>
		<link>http://shotofjaq.org/2010/02/piracy-in-the-party/comment-page-1/#comment-1923</link>
		<dc:creator>Dorian</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 Feb 2010 00:09:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://shotofjaq.org/?p=347#comment-1923</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;There is one minority party I&#039;d love to vote for.  But the truth of the matter is that they have no traction or chance of changing the political ecosystem in Canada.  Hence I probably won&#039;t vote for them.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;I&#039;m sceptical about the political process in general (slowly edging towards the anarchic).  I don&#039;t think small or one-theme parties have much chance in politics.  But I also think way too much is decided by politicians and their armies of bureaucrats to begin with.  I&#039;d like to see a day where I do more voting with my wallet or my feet than by crossing of a piece of paper and hoping for the best.&lt;/p&gt;
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There is one minority party I&#8217;d love to vote for.  But the truth of the matter is that they have no traction or chance of changing the political ecosystem in Canada.  Hence I probably won&#8217;t vote for them.</p>

<p>I&#8217;m sceptical about the political process in general (slowly edging towards the anarchic).  I don&#8217;t think small or one-theme parties have much chance in politics.  But I also think way too much is decided by politicians and their armies of bureaucrats to begin with.  I&#8217;d like to see a day where I do more voting with my wallet or my feet than by crossing of a piece of paper and hoping for the best.</p>]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: sil</title>
		<link>http://shotofjaq.org/2010/02/piracy-in-the-party/comment-page-1/#comment-1880</link>
		<dc:creator>sil</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Feb 2010 10:58:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://shotofjaq.org/?p=347#comment-1880</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;This is a jolly good point. I tend to be mildly conditioned by the way the UK Parliament works, where the unwritten policy is strongly against coalition government and we very rarely have a hung parliament, and that&#039;s the situation in which (as you very correctly note) a minority party really can punch above its weight, whether by using its few elected representatives or (if it has no elected representatives) offering to throw the weight of its supporters behind a larger party.&lt;/p&gt;
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is a jolly good point. I tend to be mildly conditioned by the way the UK Parliament works, where the unwritten policy is strongly against coalition government and we very rarely have a hung parliament, and that&#8217;s the situation in which (as you very correctly note) a minority party really can punch above its weight, whether by using its few elected representatives or (if it has no elected representatives) offering to throw the weight of its supporters behind a larger party.</p>]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: James Henstridge</title>
		<link>http://shotofjaq.org/2010/02/piracy-in-the-party/comment-page-1/#comment-1875</link>
		<dc:creator>James Henstridge</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Feb 2010 02:00:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://shotofjaq.org/?p=347#comment-1875</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;With some forms of parliament, single issue parties can be quite effective.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;For a start, if there are large multi-seat electorates then it is often a lot easier for minor parties to get a seat.  The required percentage of votes to get elected is a lot lower, and those voters don&#039;t need to be concentrated in as small an area.  In Australia, the senate at the Federal level works this way, as do the upper houses in many state parliaments.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Now if no party has a majority in the senate, then it will be necessary for a major party to gain support of one or more of the minor parties in order to pass legislation (assuming it isn&#039;t already supported by the other major parties).  A single issue party is a good candidate for these kind of deals, trading support for that single issue for whatever other issue is being voted on.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;For the single issue party, this is obviously a good deal since they get more support for their issue.  For the major party, they can get their legislation through.&lt;/p&gt;
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>With some forms of parliament, single issue parties can be quite effective.</p>

<p>For a start, if there are large multi-seat electorates then it is often a lot easier for minor parties to get a seat.  The required percentage of votes to get elected is a lot lower, and those voters don&#8217;t need to be concentrated in as small an area.  In Australia, the senate at the Federal level works this way, as do the upper houses in many state parliaments.</p>

<p>Now if no party has a majority in the senate, then it will be necessary for a major party to gain support of one or more of the minor parties in order to pass legislation (assuming it isn&#8217;t already supported by the other major parties).  A single issue party is a good candidate for these kind of deals, trading support for that single issue for whatever other issue is being voted on.</p>

<p>For the single issue party, this is obviously a good deal since they get more support for their issue.  For the major party, they can get their legislation through.</p>]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: rjs1064</title>
		<link>http://shotofjaq.org/2010/02/piracy-in-the-party/comment-page-1/#comment-1870</link>
		<dc:creator>rjs1064</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 08 Feb 2010 15:16:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://shotofjaq.org/?p=347#comment-1870</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;The idea that people can be divided into two groups is mad, not much better than a one party state. Especially when it makes so little difference which of the two corrupt, useless, self serving bunches of hypocrites you vote for.&lt;/p&gt;
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The idea that people can be divided into two groups is mad, not much better than a one party state. Especially when it makes so little difference which of the two corrupt, useless, self serving bunches of hypocrites you vote for.</p>]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: marxjohnson</title>
		<link>http://shotofjaq.org/2010/02/piracy-in-the-party/comment-page-1/#comment-1869</link>
		<dc:creator>marxjohnson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 08 Feb 2010 12:22:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://shotofjaq.org/?p=347#comment-1869</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Google roughly translates &quot;Informationelle Selbstbestimmung&quot; to Informational Self-determination, the right for the individual to decide how their personal data is disclosed.
I think the equivalent concept in the UK is data protection.&lt;/p&gt;
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Google roughly translates &#8220;Informationelle Selbstbestimmung&#8221; to Informational Self-determination, the right for the individual to decide how their personal data is disclosed.
I think the equivalent concept in the UK is data protection.</p>]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Tom</title>
		<link>http://shotofjaq.org/2010/02/piracy-in-the-party/comment-page-1/#comment-1866</link>
		<dc:creator>Tom</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 08 Feb 2010 03:30:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://shotofjaq.org/?p=347#comment-1866</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;The PP is totally awesome in Germany, they have one person in my city council. Maybe someone should have translated the picture for you guys :P
(Key points: free access to knowledge, transparent state, privacy, no patents on software/living things and Informationelle Selbstbestimmung(cannot be translated 100%, google it))&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;And Jono, if you believe your current government will make sure your kids will get a good education or that terrorism is prevented then you need to open your eyes.&lt;/p&gt;
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The PP is totally awesome in Germany, they have one person in my city council. Maybe someone should have translated the picture for you guys <img src='http://shotofjaq.org/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_razz.gif' alt=':P' class='wp-smiley' /> 
(Key points: free access to knowledge, transparent state, privacy, no patents on software/living things and Informationelle Selbstbestimmung(cannot be translated 100%, google it))</p>

<p>And Jono, if you believe your current government will make sure your kids will get a good education or that terrorism is prevented then you need to open your eyes.</p>]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: hqlt</title>
		<link>http://shotofjaq.org/2010/02/piracy-in-the-party/comment-page-1/#comment-1863</link>
		<dc:creator>hqlt</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 07 Feb 2010 18:31:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://shotofjaq.org/?p=347#comment-1863</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;The major difference between a political party and a lobby group is that a party gets direct legitimation by the people. Even if they only have 4 seats in the european parliament and even if they didn&#039;t manage to enter other parliaments, the proved that a lot of people (and a lot of people that have great influencing-power in the internet) voted Pirate Party. Being a political party, the Pirates can better prove that they have a lot of people standing behind them supporting their ideas.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Another thing ist that you don&#039;t have to be the gouvernment to influence the law. If the gouvernment sees a lot of people caring about some specific topics, they are likely to care about them as well. A lot of mainstream parties have now understood that the Digital Rights Movement is something you can&#039;t just ignore. Recently, Sweden has decided not to implement EU law retention into swedish law. They might be afraid of the Pirate Party who won two seats in the european parliamant some weeks after they had passed a law that constrained digital freedom.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Lobbyism has been tried for so many years. I don&#039;t say it&#039;s bad but why not try forming parties (and continuing the lobbyism)?&lt;/p&gt;
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The major difference between a political party and a lobby group is that a party gets direct legitimation by the people. Even if they only have 4 seats in the european parliament and even if they didn&#8217;t manage to enter other parliaments, the proved that a lot of people (and a lot of people that have great influencing-power in the internet) voted Pirate Party. Being a political party, the Pirates can better prove that they have a lot of people standing behind them supporting their ideas.</p>

<p>Another thing ist that you don&#8217;t have to be the gouvernment to influence the law. If the gouvernment sees a lot of people caring about some specific topics, they are likely to care about them as well. A lot of mainstream parties have now understood that the Digital Rights Movement is something you can&#8217;t just ignore. Recently, Sweden has decided not to implement EU law retention into swedish law. They might be afraid of the Pirate Party who won two seats in the european parliamant some weeks after they had passed a law that constrained digital freedom.</p>

<p>Lobbyism has been tried for so many years. I don&#8217;t say it&#8217;s bad but why not try forming parties (and continuing the lobbyism)?</p>]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: conor</title>
		<link>http://shotofjaq.org/2010/02/piracy-in-the-party/comment-page-1/#comment-1862</link>
		<dc:creator>conor</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 07 Feb 2010 12:37:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://shotofjaq.org/?p=347#comment-1862</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Young people who are not into politics are not into politics because it does not interest them or they are lazy and could not be bothered.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;I know this from people my age who don&#039;t bother - its not because there is nothing to motivate them its just because they could not be arsed.&lt;/p&gt;
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Young people who are not into politics are not into politics because it does not interest them or they are lazy and could not be bothered.</p>

<p>I know this from people my age who don&#8217;t bother &#8211; its not because there is nothing to motivate them its just because they could not be arsed.</p>]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: conor</title>
		<link>http://shotofjaq.org/2010/02/piracy-in-the-party/comment-page-1/#comment-1859</link>
		<dc:creator>conor</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 06 Feb 2010 22:51:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://shotofjaq.org/?p=347#comment-1859</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;In Ireland - from 1873-1914 the home rule party existed and on paper gained its goal and then began winding down because its main aim was achieved.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Now becuase of unforeseen events, ww1 for one example, they didnt get home rule and radicals stepped in and they lost out and Ireland gained independence otherwise.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Not a wholly apt comparision I know I know - but it is the only example of a single lobby political party I know (minus maybe sinn féin).&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;The pirate party has no say in the EP - bigger political parties have no real say even when they lobby into a larger political grouping. So how would the party even register any effect in the parliament yes they get time to speak etc etc etc but they will not get any tangiable results.&lt;/p&gt;
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In Ireland &#8211; from 1873-1914 the home rule party existed and on paper gained its goal and then began winding down because its main aim was achieved.</p>

<p>Now becuase of unforeseen events, ww1 for one example, they didnt get home rule and radicals stepped in and they lost out and Ireland gained independence otherwise.</p>

<p>Not a wholly apt comparision I know I know &#8211; but it is the only example of a single lobby political party I know (minus maybe sinn féin).</p>

<p>The pirate party has no say in the EP &#8211; bigger political parties have no real say even when they lobby into a larger political grouping. So how would the party even register any effect in the parliament yes they get time to speak etc etc etc but they will not get any tangiable results.</p>]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Ljumsken talar</title>
		<link>http://shotofjaq.org/2010/02/piracy-in-the-party/comment-page-1/#comment-1858</link>
		<dc:creator>Ljumsken talar</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 06 Feb 2010 13:43:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://shotofjaq.org/?p=347#comment-1858</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Te swedish pirate party isn&#039;t a &quot;one issue party&quot; any more than the social democrats (the biggest party in sweden for almost a hundred years). Social Democrats have one issue &quot;more power to the working class&quot;.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;The pirate party has three issues:
* Shared culture
* Free information
* Privacy&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;In the same way as the social democratic party is able to use their view of the world on closely related issues (and some not so closely related issues), the pirate party is able to derive (and abuse) their baseview on other topics. From school politics to climate issues (something one of the pirate EU-MPs(?) seems to be fond of).&lt;/p&gt;
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Te swedish pirate party isn&#8217;t a &#8220;one issue party&#8221; any more than the social democrats (the biggest party in sweden for almost a hundred years). Social Democrats have one issue &#8220;more power to the working class&#8221;.</p>

<p>The pirate party has three issues:
* Shared culture
* Free information
* Privacy</p>

<p>In the same way as the social democratic party is able to use their view of the world on closely related issues (and some not so closely related issues), the pirate party is able to derive (and abuse) their baseview on other topics. From school politics to climate issues (something one of the pirate EU-MPs(?) seems to be fond of).</p>]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: sorin7486</title>
		<link>http://shotofjaq.org/2010/02/piracy-in-the-party/comment-page-1/#comment-1857</link>
		<dc:creator>sorin7486</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 06 Feb 2010 11:21:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://shotofjaq.org/?p=347#comment-1857</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;I can&#039;t believe you guys can accept the idea that law and government mean so little these days for big corporations. I mean what is the world coming to if corporations can use pressure to turn our laws against us and we can&#039;t do anything about it?&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;And the second thing I&#039;d like to say is you guys have been looking at this from the perspective of your government and political system. May I draw your attention to the Netherlands, for example, which have a very diverse and interesting political scene. I mean they have the &quot;Party for Animals&quot; in parliament!!!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_parties_of_the_Netherlands&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Have you ever considered that this might be the future in a world where people gather more and more around the issues they think are important and care less about everything else ?&lt;/p&gt;
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I can&#8217;t believe you guys can accept the idea that law and government mean so little these days for big corporations. I mean what is the world coming to if corporations can use pressure to turn our laws against us and we can&#8217;t do anything about it?</p>

<p>And the second thing I&#8217;d like to say is you guys have been looking at this from the perspective of your government and political system. May I draw your attention to the Netherlands, for example, which have a very diverse and interesting political scene. I mean they have the &#8220;Party for Animals&#8221; in parliament!!!
<a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_parties_of_the_Netherlands" rel="nofollow">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_parties_of_the_Netherlands</a></p>

<p>Have you ever considered that this might be the future in a world where people gather more and more around the issues they think are important and care less about everything else ?</p>]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Stuart</title>
		<link>http://shotofjaq.org/2010/02/piracy-in-the-party/comment-page-1/#comment-1856</link>
		<dc:creator>Stuart</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 06 Feb 2010 09:35:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://shotofjaq.org/?p=347#comment-1856</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;I think that most in this forum understand how important the &quot;Digital Economy&quot; is and how important it will be in the future.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;The public perception of these issues is not yet mainstream, but think back 10 years when the green party started. Now green issues are mainstream. I think it will take a lot less than 10 years for digital rights to become a key mainstream issue.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Listen to the Interview with Andrew Robinson, the point he makes is that when you have some real people voting for you then the media starts to pay attention, and with media attention comes the members, money, and influence.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;http://piratepodcast.org/2010/01/andrew-robinson-ppuk-leader/&lt;/p&gt;
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think that most in this forum understand how important the &#8220;Digital Economy&#8221; is and how important it will be in the future.</p>

<p>The public perception of these issues is not yet mainstream, but think back 10 years when the green party started. Now green issues are mainstream. I think it will take a lot less than 10 years for digital rights to become a key mainstream issue.</p>

<p>Listen to the Interview with Andrew Robinson, the point he makes is that when you have some real people voting for you then the media starts to pay attention, and with media attention comes the members, money, and influence.</p>

<p><a href="http://piratepodcast.org/2010/01/andrew-robinson-ppuk-leader/" rel="nofollow">http://piratepodcast.org/2010/01/andrew-robinson-ppuk-leader/</a></p>]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: illumin8</title>
		<link>http://shotofjaq.org/2010/02/piracy-in-the-party/comment-page-1/#comment-1854</link>
		<dc:creator>illumin8</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 06 Feb 2010 01:46:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://shotofjaq.org/?p=347#comment-1854</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;IMHO this entire phenomena is being misunderstood. It is not at all an issue of whether or not the Pirate Party can be an effective player in the current establishment. 
It is a symbol that the establishment is changing.It is much more about an emerging viewpoint. It is less about paying lobbyists, and supporting the current model, and more about recognizing that this shift is more than just a sentiment. The public at large no longer wants to be ruled by narrow interests, or corporate goals. All of the endless spin doctoring regarding whether or not the pirate party can be an effective entity is missing the point as well. The Pirate party simply shows that there is a strong enough sentiment in the global population base to create an entire political movement around digital rights, and copyright reform. It is also a symbol that must be viewed in the long term. This is not a small phenomenon that will fizzle out. The party itself is not the phenomenon, but a product of it. Its not that there needs to be a shift, but that the shift has already happened. The tipping point was already reached, and we are watching the outplay of that shift. The pirate party is just one manifestation of that conciousness shift. Whether or not the Pirate Party brings lasting change is less the point to me than recognising that the generations after us wont let the old ways govern the new. So whether its the RIAA or my Government trying to block Cuban developers from participating in sourceforge projects, i think that those entities are dying, and are flexing to try to keep their ground.&lt;/p&gt;
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>IMHO this entire phenomena is being misunderstood. It is not at all an issue of whether or not the Pirate Party can be an effective player in the current establishment. 
It is a symbol that the establishment is changing.It is much more about an emerging viewpoint. It is less about paying lobbyists, and supporting the current model, and more about recognizing that this shift is more than just a sentiment. The public at large no longer wants to be ruled by narrow interests, or corporate goals. All of the endless spin doctoring regarding whether or not the pirate party can be an effective entity is missing the point as well. The Pirate party simply shows that there is a strong enough sentiment in the global population base to create an entire political movement around digital rights, and copyright reform. It is also a symbol that must be viewed in the long term. This is not a small phenomenon that will fizzle out. The party itself is not the phenomenon, but a product of it. Its not that there needs to be a shift, but that the shift has already happened. The tipping point was already reached, and we are watching the outplay of that shift. The pirate party is just one manifestation of that conciousness shift. Whether or not the Pirate Party brings lasting change is less the point to me than recognising that the generations after us wont let the old ways govern the new. So whether its the RIAA or my Government trying to block Cuban developers from participating in sourceforge projects, i think that those entities are dying, and are flexing to try to keep their ground.</p>]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: mg</title>
		<link>http://shotofjaq.org/2010/02/piracy-in-the-party/comment-page-1/#comment-1852</link>
		<dc:creator>mg</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 06 Feb 2010 00:17:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://shotofjaq.org/?p=347#comment-1852</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;If you don&#039;t think that the public cares about copyright issues, then how do you explain why the ACTA negotiations are being done in secret? It&#039;s to hide what is being done from the public until it&#039;s too late to do anything about it.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;As for mainstream political parties talking about it, here&#039;s an opposition MP who is the official spokesman for his party (NDP) on these issues:&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PFjOS1aHnBQ
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Epv4u10Bp-I&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;That guy by the way, was a professional musician before he went into politics, so he knows the musician&#039;s side of the story. He spent 14 years on a single issue (fighting a garbage dump) and succeeded. That is the sort of determination that is needed. The following is one of the protest songs from that effort.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RVjy8VKRsNo&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;I wouldn&#039;t normally vote for his party, but I would just for this issue alone.&lt;/p&gt;
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If you don&#8217;t think that the public cares about copyright issues, then how do you explain why the ACTA negotiations are being done in secret? It&#8217;s to hide what is being done from the public until it&#8217;s too late to do anything about it.</p>

<p>As for mainstream political parties talking about it, here&#8217;s an opposition MP who is the official spokesman for his party (NDP) on these issues:</p>

<p><a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PFjOS1aHnBQ" rel="nofollow">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PFjOS1aHnBQ</a>
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Epv4u10Bp-I" rel="nofollow">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Epv4u10Bp-I</a></p>

<p>That guy by the way, was a professional musician before he went into politics, so he knows the musician&#8217;s side of the story. He spent 14 years on a single issue (fighting a garbage dump) and succeeded. That is the sort of determination that is needed. The following is one of the protest songs from that effort.</p>

<p><a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RVjy8VKRsNo" rel="nofollow">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RVjy8VKRsNo</a></p>

<p>I wouldn&#8217;t normally vote for his party, but I would just for this issue alone.</p>]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: mg</title>
		<link>http://shotofjaq.org/2010/02/piracy-in-the-party/comment-page-1/#comment-1851</link>
		<dc:creator>mg</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 05 Feb 2010 23:02:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://shotofjaq.org/?p=347#comment-1851</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;It doesn&#039;t have to be an either/or situation between lobbying and a political party. You can have both. A political party has the advantage that it can raise the issues before the public at the only time when a government really has to worry about what the public thinks - during an election.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;If you live in a country with proportional representation, you can get an MP elected with as little as 5% of the vote. MPs have a lot of advantages such as free postage to send out letters to their constituents. Even if you don&#039;t win, if you get enough votes then you can get election funding which puts you on the same footing as the larger parties. If you do get elected, then if the government is a minority (in many countries this is the rule, rather than the exception), you can make your single issue the requirement for your support in parliament.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;In the end, a single issue party doesn&#039;t have to even get elected to influence the government. They just have to attract enough attention that the other parties will want to steal (pirate?) their policies to try to attract those voters. The difference between being the government and being the opposition is often just a few percent of the vote. That matters a lot more to a politician than whatever a lobbyist might whinge about.&lt;/p&gt;
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It doesn&#8217;t have to be an either/or situation between lobbying and a political party. You can have both. A political party has the advantage that it can raise the issues before the public at the only time when a government really has to worry about what the public thinks &#8211; during an election.</p>

<p>If you live in a country with proportional representation, you can get an MP elected with as little as 5% of the vote. MPs have a lot of advantages such as free postage to send out letters to their constituents. Even if you don&#8217;t win, if you get enough votes then you can get election funding which puts you on the same footing as the larger parties. If you do get elected, then if the government is a minority (in many countries this is the rule, rather than the exception), you can make your single issue the requirement for your support in parliament.</p>

<p>In the end, a single issue party doesn&#8217;t have to even get elected to influence the government. They just have to attract enough attention that the other parties will want to steal (pirate?) their policies to try to attract those voters. The difference between being the government and being the opposition is often just a few percent of the vote. That matters a lot more to a politician than whatever a lobbyist might whinge about.</p>]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Flamekebab</title>
		<link>http://shotofjaq.org/2010/02/piracy-in-the-party/comment-page-1/#comment-1849</link>
		<dc:creator>Flamekebab</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 05 Feb 2010 19:12:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://shotofjaq.org/?p=347#comment-1849</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Given the option to vote for the Pirate Party, I will.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;I&#039;ve no interest in voting for either of the two main UK parties, I dislike both and neither have the public&#039;s interests at heart.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;It would be nice to have a government that behaved as if it mattered what its people thought, rather than doing whatever it feels like, at the beck and call of corporations and multinationals.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;The way digital copyright issues are handled is indicative of the disgusting political attitudes that dominate the major parties.&lt;/p&gt;
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Given the option to vote for the Pirate Party, I will.</p>

<p>I&#8217;ve no interest in voting for either of the two main UK parties, I dislike both and neither have the public&#8217;s interests at heart.</p>

<p>It would be nice to have a government that behaved as if it mattered what its people thought, rather than doing whatever it feels like, at the beck and call of corporations and multinationals.</p>

<p>The way digital copyright issues are handled is indicative of the disgusting political attitudes that dominate the major parties.</p>]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: verbalshadow</title>
		<link>http://shotofjaq.org/2010/02/piracy-in-the-party/comment-page-1/#comment-1845</link>
		<dc:creator>verbalshadow</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 05 Feb 2010 18:25:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://shotofjaq.org/?p=347#comment-1845</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Well the Pirate Party may currently be a single issue party. But is easy to apply the idea of openness to many topics. Education, Social Projects, Government infrastructure, Format standards, and many others. This seems to me to be the next step in their party&#039;s evolution/growth. Failing this means they will fade away.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;I have the impression that many of the FOSS contributors in Sweden are members or at least have leaning towards this party&#039;s ideals. The move to Openness would be the deal sealer for many.&lt;/p&gt;
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well the Pirate Party may currently be a single issue party. But is easy to apply the idea of openness to many topics. Education, Social Projects, Government infrastructure, Format standards, and many others. This seems to me to be the next step in their party&#8217;s evolution/growth. Failing this means they will fade away.</p>

<p>I have the impression that many of the FOSS contributors in Sweden are members or at least have leaning towards this party&#8217;s ideals. The move to Openness would be the deal sealer for many.</p>]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Nightwish</title>
		<link>http://shotofjaq.org/2010/02/piracy-in-the-party/comment-page-1/#comment-1842</link>
		<dc:creator>Nightwish</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 05 Feb 2010 14:37:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://shotofjaq.org/?p=347#comment-1842</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;The main parties all over the world are also single issue parties; their ideology is to give more money and power to themselves and their buddies.&lt;/p&gt;
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The main parties all over the world are also single issue parties; their ideology is to give more money and power to themselves and their buddies.</p>]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Ynot</title>
		<link>http://shotofjaq.org/2010/02/piracy-in-the-party/comment-page-1/#comment-1840</link>
		<dc:creator>Ynot</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 05 Feb 2010 13:25:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://shotofjaq.org/?p=347#comment-1840</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;&lt;em&gt;Addendum to my last post&lt;/em&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;This has historically been used to great success in local government issues.
An issue of concern to a local community&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;I don&#039;t know whether there are any examples of this technique being used to successfully influence national (or even inter-national) issues&lt;/p&gt;
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><em>Addendum to my last post</em></p>

<p>This has historically been used to great success in local government issues.
An issue of concern to a local community</p>

<p>I don&#8217;t know whether there are any examples of this technique being used to successfully influence national (or even inter-national) issues</p>]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Ynot</title>
		<link>http://shotofjaq.org/2010/02/piracy-in-the-party/comment-page-1/#comment-1839</link>
		<dc:creator>Ynot</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 05 Feb 2010 13:15:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://shotofjaq.org/?p=347#comment-1839</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Minority parties have routinely cropped up in UK politics for hundreds of years, and have traditionally served a different purpose to lobbying groups.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Where lobbying groups raise the awareness of the public on an issue, a single issue party raises awareness of the issue with the other parties.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;The idea of such political parties is to never actually get into power, rather to skim votes off of the &quot;real&quot; parties.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Skim enough votes, and the race between the other parties becomes very close. Close to the point where if one party announces it&#039;ll mirror the policy of the minority party, all the voters will flood back to the &quot;real&quot; party and secure it&#039;s (re-)election&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Lobby groups and minority parties play the two pincers that act to corner the major parties into addressing issues of concern to the voting public&lt;/p&gt;
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Minority parties have routinely cropped up in UK politics for hundreds of years, and have traditionally served a different purpose to lobbying groups.</p>

<p>Where lobbying groups raise the awareness of the public on an issue, a single issue party raises awareness of the issue with the other parties.</p>

<p>The idea of such political parties is to never actually get into power, rather to skim votes off of the &#8220;real&#8221; parties.</p>

<p>Skim enough votes, and the race between the other parties becomes very close. Close to the point where if one party announces it&#8217;ll mirror the policy of the minority party, all the voters will flood back to the &#8220;real&#8221; party and secure it&#8217;s (re-)election</p>

<p>Lobby groups and minority parties play the two pincers that act to corner the major parties into addressing issues of concern to the voting public</p>]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Alistair Munro (b1ackcr0w)</title>
		<link>http://shotofjaq.org/2010/02/piracy-in-the-party/comment-page-1/#comment-1838</link>
		<dc:creator>Alistair Munro (b1ackcr0w)</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 05 Feb 2010 12:43:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://shotofjaq.org/?p=347#comment-1838</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;I think the single issue parties could have a useful secondary useful role. For example, why shouldn&#039;t Digital Rights Groups help get young people politicized? If it becomes a route in to getting younger people to consider what their political views are, then they could perform a really useful secondary function.&lt;/p&gt;
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think the single issue parties could have a useful secondary useful role. For example, why shouldn&#8217;t Digital Rights Groups help get young people politicized? If it becomes a route in to getting younger people to consider what their political views are, then they could perform a really useful secondary function.</p>]]></content:encoded>
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